Scriptnotes Recap: Ep. 742 - Curry Barker on Writing and Directing Obsession

Like a well-timed jump scare, Obsession came out of nowhere... and was a smash hit. Packed theaters week after week. Box office breaking numbers. And now, everyone is talking about the mystical One Wish Willow, a "toy" that grants you your deepest desire. (Be careful what you wish for. Word choice matters.)

First-time feature director, Curry Barker, didn’t grow up in LA. He grew up in Alabama, far away from the heart of the film industry. He says he wasn't the straight-A student. In fact, his past self would be surprised he's a working writer. However, he was always a creative kid and hungry to learn (shout out to the Aaron Sorkin MasterClass.)

Curry’s previous work serves to validate the content-creator-to-filmmaker pipeline. With years of comedy sketches and YouTube releases under his belt, he’s no stranger to online feedback. In his discussion with John and Craig, they talk about what it’s like to receive such a volume of feedback, from glowing to scathing.

If you’d use your One Wish Willow to get your first feature to the big screen, then this episode is for you.

Getting Started Outside Los Angeles

John: Today on the show, we welcome the writer-director of one of my favorite films of the summer, which has become a surprise blockbuster and the subject of countless articles. The film is Obsession. The writer-director is Curry Barker. Welcome, Curry Barker.

I want to give some sense of your storytelling here because I feel like a lot of our listeners can picture themselves in you in the sense of a kid who grows up outside of Los Angeles, outside of New York, outside of the industry, moves here, and figures out how to do stuff. Give us a sense of where you come from.

Curry: I'm from a small town in Mobile. I went to high school there at Baker. I was in the acting program. I was in the marching band. I was in BH1, which was our news where we actually got a lot of editing skills. I started my own film club in school. If I wanted to act in film, I had to make it myself. I started really even editing and putting things together at a pretty young age. I think what I really got a sense for is my instincts of storytelling started growing at an earlier age that I think has really given me an advantage.

What's really funny is I never would have saw myself as a writer. If a 12-year-old me were to look up and see me now — my 12-year-old self would just not believe. Would be like, "No, you're not. You're not good at English class." It just didn't seem like it was in the cards for me to be a professional writer. It's really about storytelling. My bread and butter is conversation and how it can get uncomfortable. I did the Aaron Sorkin MasterClass. That was a big thing for me.

I learned so many rules about storytelling. I took it to heart in a way that probably really enhanced the way that I — the rules are so important. You can't introduce something in the first act and then not pay it off in the third act. You can't have something magically appear in the third act that you didn't introduce in the first or second act. All these things that are pretty important to make sure that you're either paying everything off or not, that I could really give credit to the Aaron Sorkin MasterClass.

It's an instinct thing, really. It's like you understand that if something doesn't feel right, it's probably because it wasn't paid off correctly. What is it that you want to feel fully satisfied at the end, but then also the art of knowing what doesn't need to be paid off. That's really hard.

John: Going to film school — what did you get from it?

Curry: The thing I got from it the most was just the people that I met along the way. Going to film school, you hopefully will find people that have similar interests. First of all, it gets you out here. I'm from a small town. It was an excuse to leave. The culture in film school is one of making things. I got lucky. Moving to Los Angeles and seeing Warner Brothers and wanting to be on the other side of that fence so bad. Your group of friends, they're doing stuff. A week later, three of your friends are like, "Hey, come on over and watch the thing I just did." Now you feel like a lazy piece of shit. It keeps you going.

The Power of Simple Ideas

John: Talk to us about when you first post something online for strangers to look at.

Curry: The first thing that really hit it off for me, like, "Oh my God, I'm a director," was The Chair. It was a short film I made for $2,000. I had this small friend group where we would write short films, and we would all gather and do these little table reads. When I had this chair script, people didn't like it that much. I was like, "No, you don't understand. It's going to be weird." I honestly felt a naive amount of confidence.

Craig: There is a bit of a craft in trying to take something on the page and add a little bit of extra. Sometimes there are things that just need to be made that you won't get it any other way.

John: That's a real benefit your generation had — you got the chance to experiment a lot. When you're making something in an afternoon, if it's great, fantastic. If it sucks, you don't have to show it to the world.

Craig: Fail out loud just as much as you've succeeded out loud. You have no option now anyway. Take big swings.

Curry: I knew that I wanted to do some crazy things with Nikki. In The Chair short film, there was this girl character who would flip from different emotions. I was like, "I want to do a movie where that's the whole gimmick." Something that's really cool about this movie is that it lends itself well to being in the horror genre. This idea, just the obsession of something, it's scary. It's scary to have someone feel so strongly about you.

Craig: There is an elegance to it. The idea is not complicated. Almost nothing about it is complicated. I think the reason there are 5 million think pieces is because it provokes an enormous amount of thought. It gives you space to theorize and more importantly, put yourself in the shoes of the people involved. I found myself being both of them.

Curry: I think I gravitate towards simple stories anyway. Even if you were just to read the logline, you'd be like, "Oh, what? We've seen this a million times." I love stories that are simple because there's so much room. Sometimes simple is just better. It's kind of like a magic trick. Megan's death scene — if that happened four times in the movie, then it's a slasher and it doesn't really work anymore. Because it's all leading up to this moment, in a movie that does it a bunch of times, you would watch it and be like, "The kills in this movie were just as crazy, so why was this one more effective?" It's just because it's more simple.

When I was 17, JJ Abrams said on a podcast, "The most successful people in life don't take themselves too seriously." I don't know what it is about that statement that just stuck with me. It freed me up because I was like, "So I don't have to take this seriously?" Don't take the art too seriously because there's something freeing about it.

The Different Layers of Industry Pressure

John: Something that would be very practical for a lot of our listeners is how do you make that first movie? You have a script and you actually have to go try to film a thing.

Curry: This producer, James Harris, reached out and said, "Hey, I have this program where I find a filmmaker and give them X amount of money and give them basically a shot. Do you have an idea?" I was like, "I have this Obsession idea." I pitched Obsession to James. His response was basically, "I like this idea, but why don't you write the script?" I started, "Oh my God, this is a huge opportunity for me." Looking back, that gives me some hope because I was still under pressure then, just a different type of pressure.

Craig: When nothing's happened yet, you are about as free as you'll ever be. In a way, trying to shut everything out to be that free again is part of the challenge.

Curry: The YouTube comments have taught me a lot — that people are really smart, which is not always the thing you learn online. People are picking up on things. As long as you're telling it through subtext enough, people are getting it. Learning that through YouTube has given me the confidence to treat my audience like they're smart. Also, now I've learned that comments are very bad for me. Comments are like food that you put in your body. If you just don't eat it, then you don't have to digest it.

Craig: I've struggled with this my whole life. Where I landed was, I think it's me as my most childlike, trying to get what I should have gotten and didn't, which is some sort of perfect, beautiful, unconditional love and acceptance. You look for that, and it will mean nothing, and then the punches come, and you will feel those so much more. 200 I-love-you’s and 1 punch, and all you think about all day is the punch because it was not a healthy exercise in the first place.

Curry: It is. You literally are like, "I hope the next one's not negative," but you're still scrolling. Stop doing it.

Craig: It's bad for you. You're waiting for it. It's like people who don't stop gambling until they've lost everything. Because there's nothing to be — there's no such thing as constructive criticism because there's no construction.

Curry: I'm having the biggest hit ever right now, and I'm thinking about what's my next movie. I can't even for one second enjoy this. I'm already thinking about what's next.

Craig: Okay, so good news, bad news. Bad news is you will never enjoy it. Good news, this is the best, most striking sign that you will continue to succeed. Because the people who were motivated by success, when they get it, they don't realize it, but they just got fed. They're not hungry anymore. If what you're hungry for is the next dream thing —

Curry: It's crazy how it means nothing to me. It drives me nuts, actually.

Craig: You're jealous of yourself, disappointed in yourself for not being enlightened enough to enjoy it. Jealous of the guy who did that thing because you don't know how he did that, really. Sometimes you're like, "Did I even do it?" It's terrifying, and then you do it again. This is your personal heaven, hell. I think the people who do what we do, and who do it at length — this feeling is part of it. If I get to not-terrified, that's a huge day for me. I love hearing this. This means we're going to get a lot more movies out of you.

Listen to the full episode on Scriptnotes or wherever you get your podcasts! The full transcript is available at johnaugust.com

Photo by Gareth Cattermole/Getty Images for IMDb